Whether you admit it or not, being raised in America, we all know the racial stereotypes that have traversed through our colorful history. For Asian Americans, we are all good at math right? It’s a stereotype, but a good stereotype right? Despite my frequent ramblings, political correctness concerns me little. Instead, I am interested in the roots and explanations to social phenomenon that we humans, out of ignorance, simplify with racial stereotypes.
What do people really think about the Asians-good-at-math stereotype? Oh, I know, it’s because they’re smarter. Well, no, if we accept Asians are good at math because Asians are smarter, we fall into the same whirlpool of ignorance the Conquistadors used to justify their dominance over Meso-Americans or 19th century American slave owners who believed African slaves could only become civilized through hard work. Fortunately, Malcolm Gladwell’s most recent book, Outliers, has shed some light on the Asian math stereotype.
First, what we know. American grade school students have always trailed continental Asia in math. Some claim Asian students are better because they spend more hours in school. But comparing school systems fails to account for Asian-American success. Asians in America go through the same education system yet in the 2003 SAT exam, Asian-Americans averaged 575 in Math while White’s averaged 534, American Indian’s 482, Hispanics 464, and African Americans at 426.
So if it’s not the schools, what accounts for Asians succeeding in math across different education systems? As English speakers, we may be unaware, but the English language is perhaps the most odd and irrational language around. Particularly with numbers, in English, after ten the teens each have an unique name and each tenth following that gets their own name. In fact, one would need to learn 28 unique words to count up to 100 in English while in any Chinese dialect, Japanese, or Korean, one only needs to learn 11 – one through ten and one hundred.
In Asian languages like Chinese, numbers after ten follow a precise logic. Eleven in Mandarin is shi yi or ten-one, twelve is ten-two, thirteen is ten-three, and so forth. When we get to fifty-nine, the logic continues, five-ten-nine. Five tens and a nine, 59. The internal logic in counting numbers with Asian languages results in kids who speak Asian languages are able to count beyond a hundred before English speakers can even count to 40. But the Asian language advantage doesn’t stop in counting. Remember those dreaded fractions? In English we would read 3/4 as three-fourths. But for languages like Chinese, 3/4 is literally translated, “out of 4 parts, take 3″.
When you think how much more sense math makes for Asian-language speakers and considering how many frustrated 3rd graders go home with there hands crossed because multiplication doesn’t make sense. How much fun would math had been if it did make sense? Wouldn’t you do more homework? In turn wouldn’t you pick up new concepts – in which case math heavily depends on learning piece by piece – easier. Quite simply,
The much-storied disenchantment with mathematics among western children starts in the third and fourth grade, [...] perhaps a part of that disenchantment is due to the fact that math doesn’t seem to make sense; its linguistic structure is clumsy; its basic rules seem arbitrary and complicated.
Asian children, by contrast, don’t face nearly that same sense of bafflement. They can hold more numbers in their head, and do calculations faster, and the way fractions are expressed in their language corresponds exactly to the way a fraction actually is—and maybe that makes them a little more likely to enjoy math, and maybe because they enjoy math a little more they try a little harder and take more math classes and are more willing to do their homework, and on and on, in a kind of virtuous circle.
When it comes to math, in other words, Asians have built-in advantage. . .
And as a child, you’re not discouraged at math, it’s likely you’ll continue to take math classes growing up and continuing to do homework because it just all makes sense.
While extensive study on languages affect on math, Gladwell’s assertions shed light away from simplistic racial explanations for which I personally rejoice over.
Related posts:
Another Legit theory: It’s all just a stereotype, which is a form of racism (even when it’s a “positive” stereotype).The language doesn’t really change much, since Americans use the decimal system, with each space representing a particular number. For example, shi yi is given as meaning “ten-one” in Mandarin in the article, while in the system we commonly use in the States has it as 11, with the first 1 being the “tens digit” (so one ten is 10) and the latter being the “ones digit” (with one 1 being 1).
Now, a more legit theory looks into the cultures of Asia, which omits Russia despite it being a good-sized chunk of the continent. Continental Asia (and the archipelago Japan) tends to stress schooling more than the US does, which generally helps to increase test scores.
I’m good at math, and I’m European-American.
Mr McGee,
You, sir, are an idiot. Math is logic, and it takes logic to be creative. Without logic, “creativity” would lead to lead to chaos. Keep your racist remarks to yourself lam self.
Asians have no creative ability
I’m of Chinese descent, and I’m good at math (in that I can understand very high level abstract concepts – I’m really bad at elementary school arithmetic, but I’m awesome with calculus and higher). However, I was born in the United States and the only language that I am proficient in is English. Explain that away.
From my observations, I’ve noticed that most Asians aren’t really good at math. It’s mostly just an untrue stereotype. There are some who are really good and some who are really bad. Same with white people, black people, Latinos, etc…
Boom, headshot
i love math
The grammar in this article is just bad.
most asian imigrant are from first generation, that is why they try to success in everything, and math is something that is universal, easy to learn than the language things. their parent aren’t good at english. so the only thing they good at is math.. thats why math is something they can easily succees in.. they might thinking.. i have to be good at some thing are eles my parent not goin to be happy.. my friend think im dump. other race look down on me.. or something… .. or may be not like that.. but i guess thats what it look like…because they dont want to come to american to be a useless rat that eat everything free.
Oh, the paper was quoted here: http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=1224
The idea Gladwell presents is an interesting one. Unfortunately, the effects of language on young children’s ability to learn mathematics will necessarily be confounded with many other cultural and social variables, and it is impossible to know for sure which are the most relevant without research. I don’t think that Gladwell intended to present this theory as THE reason Asians are better at math; it was meant to be one possibly valid explanation among many. I would like to see the forthcoming research Gladwell references, but until that research is produced, his theory sits in the realm of mere speculation – as would any untested hypothesis. In my opinion, it seems like a possibly relevant but not central reason for this phenomenon.
Another interesting theory is this theory, supported by research:
“In “Social Mobility and the Educational Choices of Asian Americans,” Yu Xie at the University of Michigan, and Kimberly Goyette at Temple University examined occupational choices, expected college participation and choice of major, occupational goals, and college enrollment and graduation.
Their findings indicate that the barriers to success are lowest, and the rewards to academic achievement highest, in academic disciplines and professions grounded in math and science. As relatively unconnected newcomers, these are the paths that offer the most potential for social and financial advancement.”
Later, the paper concludes:
““Our thesis is that, being marginal racially, culturally, and politically, Asian Americans favor formal education, particularly formal education in fields of high demand in the economy, as their preferred channel of mobility.”
This explanation makes a lot of sense for recent immigrants in the United States. Individuals who study math, at least in the United States, generally speaking have more and higher paying job opportunities than individuals who study humanities or the social sciences. The concepts expressed in mathematics are not language specific and do not rely on a mastery of a foreign language.
To expand on this idea, I could easily imagine how this may be the case for Asians in Asia as well. Many sectors of Asia are still developing, and in order to ascend the social hierarchy Asians who are marginalized within Asia might still use this same tactic. Children observe their parent’s methods for advancing in society and copy them, reinforcing a set of behaviors through generations. If it is a successful survival tactic, which it does seem to be, it would persist. The discrepancy between US and Asian performance in Mathematics could be partially explained by the fact that in the US we seem to value different attributes and have adapted different ways of rising through the social hierarchy. As another commenter noted, the tenant of rugged individualism so valued by our forefathers in the US also has a tendency to produce skepticism of authority – especially intellectuals. Especially during middle school and high school the smart kids are singled out in the US and treated poorly (sometimes exceptionally so). I wonder what the atmosphere in Asian middle schools and high schools is like, whether intelligent kids are subject to such derision.
The differences in language have very little, if anything, to do with math proficiency.
Note that Japanese has two separate words for 4 (yon and shi) and seven (nana and shichi), and that they need to learn separate words for counting different things in many cases. In Chinese, the word for zero can vary if it’s in a telephone number, and the number two is different when it’s two hundred.
My wife is Japanese, and raises our children. They put much more work into studying, and learning math in particular, than most. That’s all.
its work ethic as well as the way people teach.
I went to american schools as well as a japanese weekend school. the math in the japanese school was much more thorough.
anyone who has studied sociology of education will tell you how much the american educational system sucks compared to other nations.
private schools in america may be good, but public education here is often nowhere near as comprehensive as education elsewhere.
just look at how much we spend on textbooks here. we shouldn’t even need to spend so much money on them but we do because it’s a corrupt system. people in asian nations learn math skills much quicker just because somehow their teachers are better equipped to teach.
I happen to be very good at math, science and all the technical sides of school, however I am not Asian.
Why is it that credit only goes to stereotypes? People shouldn’t be judged because of their race or things like that, only work habits. I study frequently to maintain good marks, and always ask my teachers, and Father, who used to be an Engineer, for help when I need it. Asians study, and put more effort into it, period. Maybe their languages are a bit more spatial and logical than ours, but that doesn’t explain why many Indians and people from other parts of Asia with different tongues excel in their math.
I like to think about it like this; there is quiet a few kids in Asia. No duh. The schools are very work oriented. Once again, obvious. The only conclusion you can come to is the smart kids stay up, and the ones who can’t keep up are squeezed out. In order to keep up with the competition, kids have to study much harder and spend more time on their work. I know many kids over here, In North America, whom are Asian and are NOT good at math, or even sciences. It’s strictly cultural and work ethical. I work hard, get good grades. If Americans work hard, they will get good grades.
These problems are very simple.. (in the photo) I did them mentally, and I am white. However, I do agree that Asians value education, and a lot of pressure is put on Asian children by their parents to succeed, which is partially why they tend to be considered “smart”. They practice, as the user below me stated. They were not born good at math. I find that a lot Caucasians as well as other races tend to diminish the value of education (i.e. they don’t do their homework, “hate” school, etc.). However, most Asians take school seriously, in which I respect them for that.
can i just say that i am half asian, my mom being korean and my dad british bermudian. i do quite well in school and math is one of my best subjects. living in bermuda, where being an asian is quite a big minority, all of the ‘asian’ jokes get laid on me. i don’t mind, but i find it amusing how all of the people i go to school with say that i get good grades and i’m good at math because i’m asian. what i don’t get is that yes, i am half-asian, but my mother, the korean one, is terrible at math and my dad, the white one, is all around much smarter than her (no offense to my mom or anything).
why do smarts have to be blamed on our ethnicity? can’t we just get credit for working hard?
i agree with @jwoolman, having an immigrant as a parent (my mom) forces them to have high standards. they risked everything to move to america, or canada, or wherever, in the hopes of a better life, and so they pushed their children to do well in school so that they can be successful in life, so their risk was not for nothing. this does not go to say that you can only be successful if you do well in school, but it’s probably your best bet.
also, @Lin Xuan, you sound extremely ignorant:
“What I know is that African American is the dumbest people in the whole planet and Chinese are the smartest in the world plus the other Asian races.”
i’m glad that you’re so smart and that your grammar is impeccable.
that’s all.
As soon as i read the word “legit” i knew just how “legit” this was going to be and didnt bother reading anymore
“First of all, although Liu Xiang is a fast sprinter, he is one out of how many chinese sprinters, vs. the number of Blacks dominating sports out there?”
I brought this up just to show that there are Asians who are or can be good at sports or at least something that are good by non-Asians.
ps: posting a weblink on the name column is never a good idea
Not an explanation. I’m from germany in it’s even weirder here. Instead of twentyone we say something like one-twenty. 156 is then one hundred six-fifty. It requires quite some thinking and practice to do it automatically.
Nevertheless we are better than the US (But not better then Japan) e.g. in PISA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment
in math
I’m an Asian American living in America…and I think it’s a pity how America takes English more importantly than mathematics and science. I am ashamed to be only be allowed to learn in my school Algebra II as a 15 year old. I should be able to solve problems in Algebra II when I was probably 12 or 13…I just don’t understand the system in America schools.
But the advantage of americans to us asians. Well, they are good at english (duh?!?) but other americans dont know how to spell it. I dont get it why dont they know the spelling of their own language. While us asians are good at everything.
the reason why asians are good at math because at school teachers teach some advance and complicated topics for students. Thys makes the students to think critical and widely. I’ve experienced it too. When I was 16, in our school we already studied calculus.When I reach college,well, its easy for me to cope up with the subjects. I can say that Asians are really good in math. Im not saying asians only but some other race too.
Does this account for Asian-Americans who don’t even speak their ancestral language? Or are they just smarter?
So I didn’t want to confuse using a theory to explain or assert that all Asian’s are better at math. But instead, looking for a theory that can explain for why statistically as a whole, Asian’s outperform others in American Schools when it comes to math.
So think about it this way, out of all Asians, we’ll find X% are just like any other Americans, Y% are from Asia, and Z% are born here but still have the same language capabilities had you were born Asia. By explaining why any of those subsets do better at math can explain why aggregated Asian-American student data shows Asians are better, even if, not everyone in that population is doing better.
I’m no mathematician or statistician of course, but that’s how I think of it.
Excuse me for the criticism, but it’s controversial since for native born kids (or just anyone who got used to English) to think in any language other than English at school. That because they are so used to English since they speak English during school, a primary English environment. So just how applicable is the think-in-Chinese-advantage?
I am Chinese and i am the only Asian kid in school. Everytime when there is a math test I score the highest in the class and some people never even acheive a high score in math like me. I am smarter than all the boys in my class and some girls beat me in English because I am no that good in reading comprehension.
What I know is that African American is the dumbest people in the whole planet and Chinese are the smartest in the world plus the other Asian races.
I know that Afican American people are very scare to compete with Chinese people, because in the second last day of school my math teacher was asking people to compete with me and none of the people dares to compete with me because they are too scare.
What I know is that IN STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL TONS OF ASIAN KID GOES THERE BECAUSE THEY SCORE VERY HIGH ON THE SHSAT TEST. IN STUYVESANT HIGH SCHOOL, ESPECIALLY THE CHINESE KIDS GOT A PERFECT SCORE ON THE SAT AND GOO TO TOP UNIVERSITIES. CHINESEAND OTHER ASIAN SCORE AN AVERAGE BETWEEN 2310-2400 ON THEIR SAT TEST.
SO THAT IS WHAT I KNOW SO FAR
THANK YOU
Hey Lin, thanks for your opinion, but aggregated math statistics doesn’t lend any support to this assertion:
I’m asian american. I’m also really bad at math lol. I’m also a big fan of Malcolm Gladwell and I’ve read Outliers. It’s a very good book. There is a chapter dedicated to why Asians are so good at math and he actually also goes into a lot of detail about culture and perhaps how agriculture even plays a role in it. Strange huh? But it makes a lot of sense. There are some quotes by educators stating that the most important part of learning math is having persistence — and Gladwell cites some studies where Asians and Asian-American kids have shown more persistence in test-taking and problem solving. so really that’s all it is — we were taught to be more persistent and hardworking! lol
counting is a very small part of math and if every race in America has the same curriculum, how much would langugage really effect things?
I am Chinese American and right now as freshmen going to sophomore, I can get over a 600 on my SAT in the math part so given that I am studying more, should be able to get 700. Anyways, I think we are better at math because of these factors:
1) tutoring: most Asians have a lot of tutoring for exams like SAT compared to many other races like Africans that do not care as much about education.
2) thinking the right way: that’s what it all comes down to. You just need to know how to play with numbers, use a calculator and remember important formulas.
3) every race is good at something and is better fitted for something. For Asians, it just turns out to be math.
for asians living in asia or for asian immigrants to US, they have an extra advantage that there math is years ahead.
and then again, every race is good at something
First of all, although Liu Xiang is a fast sprinter, he is one out of how many chinese sprinters, vs. the number of Blacks dominating sports out there?
Also a lot of mathematical theorems, such as Pythagorus, Gaussian elimination, were originally written by the Chinese. It’s just they were never spread from China to begin with, plus the dominance of western ideas, caused Pythagoras to be credited. Pythagoras’s is in Chinese language: 勾三股四弦五 meaning side 3 side 4 side 5
do your research before you comment on something you don’t know about so you don’t make yourself seem a fool
/thread
Many asians here look in the mirror and say i am american. They dont look american. They go to their native country and say im not asian because i cant speak it.
I’m a physicist and the language of physics is math. I’ve noticed that for many years, in pictures of young Americans who have received various awards etc. related to physics, there are indeed a large number of Asian-American kids of all types – but also a lot of Russian-American kids… The first names are often a clue in each case that these are most likely first generation kids whose parents are immigrants or who arrived very young in the US and so are nearly native. So I’ve always assumed that it’s just that kids of immigrants from groups convinced that education is the key to success just are likely to study more. This means more of them (not all) will do well in math, since you can’t cram math and need consistent study habits to deal with it. Verbal skills come more naturally to most, and bright kids can get away with sloppier study habits in verbal subject areas and still do well.
In my brief experience (I escaped academia long ago), American college students are typically very difficult to teach physics because they are so deficient in math skills – our schools just don’t teach it well. I basically taught myself a lot of it in grade school and high school, mainly because I was so interested in physics (outside of school) and knew math was needed to understand physics. Kids who study more thanks to parental attitudes might be doing the same if their teachers are as bad as mine were…. or their parents might choose to get them a better education in various ways (private schools, tutors) once they show any promise if they can afford it.
@whatthe and @Voice of Reason
Look, what Gladwell did is just offering a theory that shows Asians might have a slight advantage when learning math because of their language structure on numbers. In other words, their language just helped them. It is not the ultimate explanation of why Asians are inherently good at math (see comments by John and Wei Chen for other reasonable factors)
and @Voice of Reason again, read the comments by a_chinese if you wanna know why American children lag far behind children in the UK,
@generic commentor
If all asian people are supposedly good at maths and bad in sports, and all african people are better runners but bad at math and sciences, then how do you explain the contributions made by George Washington Carver in agriculture, and how do you explain the fact that Liu Xiang won a gold medal in 110m hurdles?
To say that one’s genetic own strengths and weaknesses are based on race is just plain stupid. I’ll say that it all gets inherited from one’s parents. Moreover, weaknesses can be overcome if one finds the right way to practice hard and improve.
We are teaching our children mathematics from very young age and assign math problems at home each night. Practice Make Perfect.
@John, I’m inclined to agree John, I was taught and memorized multiplication tables by 2nd grade when everyone else was still studying addition/subtraction.
How my math skills turned out later in life is a different story
The only resond that Asians are supposedly better at math then anyone else in the world IS because of the fact that they were well educated from an early age. In america, for example, children are tought at a slower pace then that of the chinease/japanease.
@Mirna
Malcolm Gladwell in his book “Outliers” discusses this topic.
http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/index.html
what is the citation of this article? author? jurnal name?…please reply as soon as possible..thanks
@Voice of reason, Not saying Gladwell’s point is correct, but being intelligent, inquisitive, or capitalistic has an affect on the variance in math proficiency amongst American students?
That is the stupidest, most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard in my entire life. How do you explain the fact that American children lag far behind children in the UK?? Oh wait, it’s the accent. Children in this country are stupid because the right wing has declared a war on intellect and schools are raising capitalist as opposed to intelligent, inquisitive human beings.
I am chinese. I urge with everyone to stop propagating the myth that chinese are good at math, which only makes China more stupid with typical unwarranted ego from Mao era.
Check with wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mathematicians_by_nationality
Chinese lacks behind every major race in the number of outstanding mathematicians. Where is our Pascal? Where is our Leibniz? Only two chinese (one working in US and one in Australia) has ever won the Fields Medal, compared to three Japanese (all from Japan).
I think the reason lies in the face of the smug little Chinese kid in the picture: complacency.
I offer you two alternative reasons for US’s decline in mathematics: Wallstreet and Hollywood.
@ a_chinese, Agreed. I actually avoided math in all possible ways I could in high school and college. Just not my cup of green-tea.
What do people mean by _math_ about this subject?
I can’t think of a single math theorem that has a Chinese mathematician name attached to it.
I’m sure there are great thinkers there too but I wonder if it isn’t a little bit of a stretch claiming any sort of superiority of any kind in this case.
What should we say about people of India? Some of them became famous without even studying math at school. They have their own way of making calculations too…
I guess it’s just about culture…
This is a totally home brewed theory to cover the difference in fundamental system between East and West.
Not convincing at all.
Yeah the theory has lots of faults here and there and it isn’t exactly a scientific explanation.
I just don’t see the “asians” work harder and “asians” place greater emphasis on math doing it for me.
But thanks for posting your opinions, race and ability is always a tricky topic.
I think the argument is BS. In Spanish, the numbers are prescribed the same way (at least for 16+). Does that mean they are good at math too? This an irrational theory.
To “Generic Commenter:
African claim : we are the people who run fastest in the world, so we are the top.
American and Chinese: wrong, because of the modern inventions.
Chinese claim: we are good at math, we are the top.
Africans and American: wrong, math theory is hardly anything to do with the social issues, and china is having so many social issues at the moment.
American claim: we are the top, because we have invented almost everything.
Africans and Chinese: That is true, but you invents have polluted everything as well. if you call that is the “top”, how long that “top” will last ?
I’m Asian-American, I’m good at math, enough to get into grad school for it, and I speak not a wit of any Asian language; I can barely translate my Chinese name into English (my native and only tongue) and I mispronounce it every time I try to say it.
I’m Asian, but I also don’t think all Asians are good at math. That pretty much applies to me. I have struggled in math all my life. My father once told me that my family has always been very good mathematicians. I see that in him since he deals with foreign currency trading and enjoys it.
It seems that I never inherited those genes at all because I’m not majoring in anything heavily involving math. I’m majoring in law enforcement, but I’m now leaning more on a military career (The Navy or the Marine Corps for me).
An alternate theory; awaiting Harvard approval, is that, seeing as asians (well orientals are least) are the shortest, smallest (especially where the penis is concerned), most generic, least sporty and [insert anything you feel like here] people on the planet, that, by converse of pythagoras, they have to have something going for them.
Or not. I’m open to suggestions.
Anyway, these are all valid reasons and I think you’ll find that I’m definitely right and that, no matter how much incorrect information I have used or how many times i’ve contradicted myself, my opinion is definitely better than yours. Thank you for reading.
You put up a good argument, but I’m not convinced. You said the asian-americans are scoring higher than other ethnicities in the AMERICAN SATs, so presumably these students would be learning the curriculum in english? Which would render the whole mandarin-english argument invalid.
Personally I just think it is the cultural approach to education, passed on from their parents (who emigrated from, e.g. china in their own lifetime) . In china, particular emphasis is put on maths. The population in china is so high, and the schools are too few and too under-funded, the competition is very high and only the strongest survive, and thus the student will have to spend more time trying to learn and practice, also pressured by their parents, so standards increase. This is then carried overseas. When asians are met with the american education system, where many fellow american students have been handed everything on a plate (and at a much more leisurely place), they find the work far easier. This is carried on to the next generation, via the parents putting far more pressure on the child to do well, as their parents would have done to them.
As for chinese students in china having better results than americans in america, it wouldn’t surprise me if the results where biased towards china; being a communist government and all that entails, many lower achieving schools and grades probably aren’t even counted.
I wouldn’t completely rule out the racial superiority/inferiority idea completely; despite what we may be led to believe, we aren’t all created equally. We all have our own strengths and weaknesses, starting genetically, and then furthermore differentiated via external factors. It is a possible explanation as to why asian people are good at maths, or why african people are better sprinters. or why scottish people have invented everything in the world.
They are all valid reasons and I think you’ll find that I’m definitely right and that, no matter how much incorrect information I have used or how many times i’ve contradicted myself, my opinion is definitely better than yours. Thank you for reading.
WhaT’S the name of this author?
I’m asian and i dun think asian americans r that good at math bc wat american skuls teach them only basic math
and math in sat only basic math too easy to say…